You’ll also learn what goes into getting the degree and a host of other insights from our guest, Dr. Jessica Weissman.

Learn more about the UNBOUND: Saybrook Insights podcast here.

Integrative and Functional Nutrition Degrees

• M.S. in Integrative and Functional Nutrition Degree
• Ph.D. in Integrative and Functional Nutrition Degree

Full Episode Transript

Nathan Long:

Hey everyone, this is Nathan, president of Saybrook University and host of the Saybrook Insights Podcast. It’s really good to be here. We’re back here with our next episode featuring Dr. Jessica Weissman. She’s the department chair of the Integrative Functional Nutrition Program, has a master’s and PhD degree. She’s going to talk about a wide array of things ranging from not just the program but some really cool things that you’re going to learn about relative to nutrition.

How nutritionists work, but also some of her insights about what’s happening in the field of nutrition, how to make heads or tails out of supplements to understanding keto and Atkins and veganism and vegetarianism, the whole nine yards. You’re going to really enjoy this, and I was just talking to Phil, our podcast producer, and he really made a great point. She’s just so full of life, energy, and positivity, as well as just super wicked smart, and so it is really great to be interviewing her today. As we entered into this podcast, so much was going through my head about nutrition and wellness.

I’ve always struggled my entire life with weight, self-image, body type. As a little kid, what was it my mom used to say? “We got to go to the Husky Jeans section,” which just mortified me to death for… You’re a little kid. You got those body image issues that come out. And yes, guys have them as well as women. And across the board, I think, for me, throughout most of my childhood, that was an anchor around my ankle that in which I really struggled. And I know so many men and women and non-binary folks struggle with weight, self-image, nutrition, health, whole health, the whole nine yards.

So there’s a large community of us out there that have lived with that for our entire lives. I kind of hit a point, though, in my life where I said, “It’s not just about the weight. The weight is one piece of it. There’s other aspects to it.” But I had to know that I needed to get healthy regardless of what weight I was, in order, for me, to at least feel better. And probably about eight, nine years ago, I started a journey into veganism, vegetarianism that really helped me achieve some of those initial goals. I worked with a professional in the area, and it wasn’t their recommendation per se, but we talked through a lot of the goals and ideas that could help me get there.

And over the course of two years, I started shedding weight, but more importantly, started feeling better. I was no longer achy and tired all the time and struggling to focus. And those are things that matter, especially in the jobs that we all exist in, right. You want to have that sense of connectivity to that, and as importantly, to your family and being able to connect with your kids and your spouse or partner in ways that you’re present and able to show up for. And prior to that, I just wasn’t able to. And I think for me, and I know for so many of those I talk to and interact with that that do struggle with these types of things, that’s important to really address that whole health piece of it.

And getting there is not easy. And Jessica really hits on this during our interview, and it does feel like pushing a big boulder up a mountain at times, but the journey is worth it. That approach to taking small bites, literally and metaphorically speaking. Small steps to get to that endpoint is so critical. It’s so vital to how we live into our full selves, our fullest potential as human beings. So I can’t emphasize enough. I think you’re going to really pull out of this episode so many insights from Dr. Weissman in our conversation that really tie in if it’s not you, it’s definitely your loved ones, your friends, your community, and understand a little bit more about this.

And as importantly, one of the core focuses for Saybrook University and as well the Integrative Functional Nutrition Programs is the issue of social justice and understanding that nutrition and whole health is not just about telling people where to go in terms of the best grocery stores and getting organic food. It’s not going to work for everybody, right. We’re in a day and age right now where inflation is at all-time highs. People are struggling to put literal food on the table, homelessness is rampant, and we’re working with homeless individuals who really don’t have the means or access to food sources.

And beyond the homeless, we have working-class and underemployed individuals that are in similar boats. We have food deserts across the United States. In a land of plenty, there are pockets of which there is not much. And I think we have to do more to realize that that social justice approach, and if that term gets you a little squeamish, just call it humanistic, being relational, helping people understand that we’re in journey with each other and that we need to come to that understanding of nutrition and whole health as being in journey with one another to talk about the goals and the needs that the individual has, and then say, “How can I help? How can I help?”

And so many people in my life who’ve helped me improve, helped me achieve my goals have started with that very question. And I think you’re going to hear that come through loudly and clearly, along with the importance of evidence-based practice and science that informs a definite universal but individualized approach to nutrition and wellness. So thank you for joining me today. And here is Dr. Jessica Weissman on Saybrook Insights.

All right, Jessica Weissman, Dr. Weissman, what a joy to have you coming in full-time now to the department chair seat officially for the Integrative Functional Nutrition Program here at Saybrook University. And before we get started, I’d like for you to maybe tell us a little bit about yourself, your personal history as it relates to nutrition, integrative health, your professional background, including what led you to this academic side of the work.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

When I was 13, I used to sneak into the gym because I wasn’t old enough to get into the gym. And I was so skinny that I would walk next to my father, and he would say, “Just don’t make eye contact, and they won’t notice you’re with me.” So, needless to say, I’ve always been interested in fitness and in exercise and health and nutrition. I currently live in Florida, where I practice what I preach. I try to get vitamin D every day, whether it’s walking my dog. I lift weights outside and run. I recently picked up kiteboarding and surfing.

Just a lot of fun as well. So I enjoy exercising. A little bit about my educational background. So I have a Bachelor’s of Science in Exercise Science and Health Promotion. My master’s of science is in dietetics and nutrition, and my PhD is in Public Health. I’m a clinical dietician. I’m a registered and licensed dietician here in Florida. I’ve worked in clinical settings and bariatric settings, and fitness settings as a dietician, and I like to give back to the community and participate in the Florida Public Health Association Board of Directors. I’m currently their immediate past president.

Nathan Long:

Wow. I mean, that’s quite a background there. And I love the story about you going into the gym and hiding behind your dad. How long ago was that, and how little were you?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

I was about 13. I won’t say how long ago it was, but the memory is fresh in my mind still.

Nathan Long:

That’s so great. That’s so great. And you know, you have this passion around it, and you say it’s something that’s near and dear to you. There had to be, well, maybe there didn’t have to be, but was there some sort of pivotal moment or thing that really inspired you to be so active and so committed to nutrition in that way? I just find it interesting.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So I loved exercise. I loved fitness. I would see the person next to me, and I would get on the machine and I would make sure that I lift at least five pounds more than the guy that was on the machine before I was. So that passion’s always been there. And it might have started with the fact that I wasn’t allowed in the gym because I was too young, and that just made me want it more.

And now it’s just part of my life. Just like I eat or I sleep, I exercise. I don’t feel right if I don’t exercise to get some sort of physical activity, even if it’s just walking or stretching every day. So when I realized I could major in that and I could get a degree in this and work on this and talk to other people about this all day long. I mean, it seemed like the obvious choice.

Nathan Long:

That’s so, so great. Well, how did you find your way to Saybrook University? What made it stand out for you in terms of the program and the work you were doing prior to becoming department chair?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So in searching for a career to sort of fulfill that need, if you will, to help others in their life, I came across Saybrook. Saybrook’s Humanistic Mission kind of resonated with me. I’m sure we’ve all felt this lack of humanistic approach in medicine and in healthcare, where we feel that the medical provider isn’t listening to us.

They’re just typing notes. They’re not making eye contact. And that really resonated me because it’s not just important for academia, but it’s also important in healthcare. And a lot of our graduates will go out and become practitioners, and they will work with patients, and they will talk about nutrition, and it’s nice to know that they’re going out there and they’re practicing humanistically.

Nathan Long:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I love, love the way you put that. And I’m curious, [inaudible 00:11:20] what is your philosophy on the department and the type of teaching and preparation around nutrition and whole health that a Saybrook IFN Program should be doing? What are all those elements?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So our department teaches students how to practice holistic, individualized, and sort of humanistic nutrition and dietetics. So we teach a lot of different philosophies, whether it’s traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, conventional medicine, naturopathy. And then, it’s up to the students to decide which philosophies kind of sit well with them. We teach evidence-based medicine. We teach evidence-based practice. So we want students grounding their nutrition recommendations out to the public in peer-reviewed, evidence-based literature.

And with that, we want them to understand that there are different philosophies out there and that people will practice the philosophies that resonate with them and that they’re comfortable with. And so our job is to help them live healthier, longer, happier lives while not staring away from their culture and their personal values, and what they believe in. And our PhD program really is suited well for those who also want to take it a step further and give back and teach and conduct research and be in the higher education and academic settings.

Nathan Long:

What a terrific way to do it. And so I like how you put that. You’re honoring people’s cultural context. Where they come from. Who they are. That’s the idea of a university, right. We can share different viewpoints and different ways of being in the world and choose our path. And yet, sounds like what you’re saying is that there needs to be some grounding, some anchor, and that anchor is that evidence-based practice, right. That there’s-

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm.

Nathan Long:

… research to back up what folks are putting out there in the public fair to say.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

It’s fair to say we want to keep people safe, and we want to give them evidence-based recommendations. We have this COVID-19 pandemic, but we also have pandemics of a lot of other chronic conditions. And so we want people to be safe. We want to give them appropriate targeted nutrition recommendations with consideration of their cultural needs and the respect for the individual.

Nathan Long:

Yeah. Okay. All right, very good. So I’m going to shift gears for a minute, and I really want to understand some things. So we’ve got the expert, Dr. Jessica Weissman, in the room. So I’m hoping you can help me unpack some of this stuff. So beyond the basics of nutritional fad diets out there, right, there’s so much confusion out there about what’s healthy isn’t, et cetera.

I go crazy sometimes and really confused about how to fit it all together. One minute we’re told carbs are good, then they’re bad. Red wine. Oh yes, it’s an excellent tool for heart health. One minute then it isn’t. And on and on and on. From your perspective, how do we make sense out of all this, especially a layperson like me who’s not a nutritionist, not a integrative practitioner, or any kind of healthcare practitioner? How do we make sense of it all?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So first off, you hire a nutritionist or dietician.

Nathan Long:

So I’ll put you on payroll.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Exactly. No, but seriously, we teach our students the basic foundations of nutrition. So they’re required to take courses like anatomy and physiology and nutritional science and biochemistry. And so they have this foundational knowledge, which really helps them to interpret the evidence-based literature. In the PhD program, about a third of their classes actually come from the research department. So they’re learning how to read research, understand research.

And I know the public gets frustrated sometimes because one day eggs are good, one day eggs are bad. One day chocolate’s good and one day chocolate’s bad. And it’s not so much that the research is just contradicting for no apparent reason. It’s just the nature of research. And this is why we need more and more research and why I’m happy that we have a PhD program where our students are conducting their own research and will publish in evidence-based journals themselves.

But different study methodologies produce different outcomes. There’s a lot of factors that play a role in nutrition research. So I always say to my students, to patients, to clients, “There’s no way I can know everything about nutrition. There’s just no way. Nobody can ever know everything about nutrition because there’s just hundreds of articles published every day.” But what we really strive to teach our students how to do is to read the research and interpret the research.

Nathan Long:

There you go.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

There’s no perfect study. So they have to know how to assess study biases and all that sort of thing.

Nathan Long:

Yeah, that’s a really great point. And I think we’ve struggled with this during the pandemic, from mask-wearing and vaccines and all that stuff. We’re not going to get into that today, but certainly, the research out there, it feels like it’s conflicting. But the very nature of scientific research is that it will change because new light come… new information comes to light, new knowledge, that type of thing that builds on or disproves previous things, previous theories, previous supposition.

So I really appreciate how you put that together for us. And everyone, go hire your own nutritionist, right. There you go. So let’s dive into this maybe a little bit more. Help us understand at a deeper level some of the major archetypes out there related to nutrition and health. And I’ll get into that in a second about what I mean by that. We have people who are dieting to lose weight, those who desire to eat as healthfully as possible. And those like yourself who are really competitive.

I don’t know that you want to get as jacked as possible, but there are those out there… Yep, yep. She’s got muscles, everybody. She could take me out in a street fight, I think, any day of the week. From all sides of the spectrum, how do you or how do we support people in these various paths? And how do individuals in each of these categories determine how to approach things in the best, most health-conscious way? I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but would love to hear your point of view.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

We teach our students how to assess patients, how to assess clients from the minute they make the appointment at the office. And so, really, we’re just like every other healthcare practitioner. We try to conduct comprehensive assessments. Actually, with our focus on Integrative and Functional Nutrition specifically, we really have a focus on assessing patients holistically and spending time to actually listen to patients and putting their story together and understanding the things that happened, even preconception, that affect their lives now and their health now, and their decisions that they make now.

There’s also a really interesting cultural phenomenon happening right now. So most of the people living, most of the adults living in this country right now are overweight, obese. And so there’s a cultural shift in which we’re trying to normalize this to improve mental health and to not weigh people down with the superficial nature of the way they look. But it’s kind of an interesting phenomenon because, as a healthcare practitioner, I don’t really care how you look. I care about your health and your happiness, and your wellness. So it’s an interesting phenomenon because being overweight and obese is a medical diagnosis that can be billed for it can be coded for.

It’s the same thing as being diagnosed with HIV or hypertension, or cancer. So there is some balance that needs to ultimately happen into normalizing the superficial and the mental health aspect of overweight or obesity. But balancing it with the fact that there is a huge abundance of literature that shows that overweight and obese lead to most of our leading causes of death in this country. So there’s no real one size fits all approach to this. I often kind of recommend to people to do what you enjoy doing. If you don’t like lifting lights, don’t lift weights. If you like swimming, swim. Find the physical activity that suits you that you enjoy.

So whether it’s nutrition, whether it’s exercise, there’s really no one size fits all. We want people to be happy to be healthy. And in terms of those looking to get jacked or looking to get… lose a little weight or looking to improve their osteoporosis or improve their COVID-19 condition, these all have totally different nutrition recommendations, nutrition guidelines, different needs, and that’s something that our students will learn and be able to tailor nutrition recommendations to their specific clients.

Nathan Long:

It’s like you do this for a living or something, Dr. Weissman. I love it. No, that’s fabulous. So I’m going to ask you… Maybe this is an unfair set of questions, but I’m going to ask you for some-

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Okay.

Nathan Long:

… hot takes that you have on a few items that are top of mind right now for many out there. What’s your take on veganism or vegetarianism, or both?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

First of all, if I’m working with a client, I like to know why they’re vegan, why they’re vegetarian.

Nathan Long:

Okay.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Is it because they love animals and they’re passionate about animals? That’s great. And if that’s the case, I really don’t want to intervene and try to change that side of them. But is it for weight loss, for example? If that’s the case, it may not be the best weight loss diet because, technically, if I’m a vegetarian, I can eat pizza, french fries, and macaroni and cheese all day, and I’m still a vegetarian.

Another thing is, with veganism, if you’re trying to lose weight, it’s also a similar circumstance because about this much peanut butter has as many calories as this much chicken, so it’s pretty calorically dense, which is great if you want to gain weight. But peanut butter may not be the best weight loss food because a very small amount gives you a lot of calories and won’t really fill you up.

I really think it’s important to assess the person’s reason for being a vegetarian or vegan. But I really try my best not to steer people away from these fundamental beliefs that they have because it’s important. And who am I to say, “Eat the animals.”

Nathan Long:

Yeah, fair enough. My son and I were laughing yesterday. We were at the grocery store, and Ruffles has this new thing on their packaging, the potato chip, that says, “Gluten-free and vegan.”

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Nice.

Nathan Long:

So yes, and the vegans around the world are like, “Okay, I’ve got some potato chips I can eat, right.”

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

It’s always funny to me when food products are labeled cholesterol free, but it’s a non-animal product because cholesterol is a hormone, so it’s only found in animal product. So by default, if it’s anything that never was associated with a living… a being, then it is going to be cholesterol free. So the marketing in this country is a little funny.

Nathan Long:

There you go. So be attentive to the marketing folks. You heard it from Dr. Weissman. All right. What about keto and Atkins or Paleo and intermittent fast? And you can take one or all of those. Your quick hot take on those.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Okay, so I’ll give you my hot take on all three. So if someone is very passionate about one of these, I will have to assess what’s going on with them, see what conditions they’re dealing with, and what their goals are. There could be ways in which these things are okay. Sometimes people call Atkins or keto, and they’re not really following it. They think they’re following it but they’re not exactly following it. And same thing with intermittent fasting.

Technically, we all intermittent fast because when you’re not eating, you’re fasting, right. You’re intermittently in between your meals. So I really have to break it down and know what the person is doing or wants to do, and then assess what’s going on with the patient and see if it’s healthy and safe for the person. A lot of people in this country are living with type 2 diabetes.

A lot of people are living with COVID-19 or post-COVID-19. There’s a lot of stress and mental health issues going on right now. So all of these things play a role in what diet might be best for the person to follow. I personally wouldn’t recommend [inaudible 00:24:04] someone not on a fad diet and not interested in a fad diet to follow a fad diet.

Nathan Long:

That’s good advice. All right. Right there. So that’s very helpful. So next hot take. It’s [inaudible 00:24:16] kind of two hot takes, and this is a big one. So for brevity’s sake, maybe just what are your thoughts about Ayurvedic and other non-Western nutritional approaches?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So we teach a lot of different sort of belief systems and theories and approaches in our classes. But I always ground the students in really evidence-based nutrition that’s going to be typically the safest and most effective nutrition protocol.

But that’s not to say that you can’t practice certain beliefs, whatever those beliefs are, and not contradict evidence-based medicine. So I think it really just takes an individualized one-on-one conversation with the patients who help them meet their health goals while meeting their cultural goals.

Nathan Long:

[inaudible 00:25:04]. Circling way back to the beginning. No, that’s very good. All right. What does the science say about organic versus non-organic GMO foods?

 

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Organic foods are great for those who can afford them. We all know prices of foods have gone up, and maybe we’re thinking about which foods you buy organic and which foods you don’t. Every so often, there’s a news story that, “Oh, whoops, those strawberries that you bought that you thought were organic were right next to a non-organic farm.” So we realized that the strawberries you’ve been eating for the last six months aren’t organic, and people get up in arms about this stuff.

So you can go extreme and buy everything organic. It’s definitely going to cost you more, but it matters more for some foods than for others. For example, fruits with the thicker skin and you’re not eating the skin or the peel of the fruit, it won’t matter as much as something like an apple, and you’re biting right into the skin. As far as GMO foods go, there’s definitely a concern with Roundup.

They use Roundup to kill the weeds around the crop while preserving the actual crop itself. Actually, if you want to know more about GMO specifically, one of our faculty members, Lori Taylor, is an expert in that topic, so she’s a perfect person to get into a lot of detail about that on.

Nathan Long:

Oh, very good. Okay. And lastly, supplements. Given these are largely not FDA regulated, and we can add to that things like protein shakes, et cetera. Where do you stand on these for use in one’s daily diet intake?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Okay, so the FDA, they don’t approve diet supplements before they’re sold to the public, but they do play a role in regulation after the supplements are on the market and they’re sold.

Nathan Long:

Okay.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So they regulate supplements under a different set of regulations than those that cover the food sort of regulations. And so that is the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994. And basically, what’s the case is that manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements and dietary ingredients are prohibited from marketing products that are adulterated or misbranded.

So, for example, you can’t say your product has 10 grams of fiber per serving if it doesn’t, or it has 20 grams of protein, and it really has five grams of protein or something to that effect, or that it’s whey, but it’s really not it’s soy. But there is a way to report supplements on the FDA website.

And so, if anybody has suspicion about a supplement, I would encourage you to go to the FDA website and just Google FDA report a misbranded supplement. But I think sometimes people get confused about that as they always say, “Oh, the FDA doesn’t regulate supplements.” That’s not precisely true. They just regulate them after the fact.

Nathan Long:

Okay. So once they’re on the market, they get regulated. Okay, all right.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm. Which is why, sometimes, you see, in the past, with ephedrine, it got taken off the market because it was causing cardiac issues that ultimately resulted in a lot of deaths in this country. So it’s not the best, but they do play some sort of role in regulating supplements.

Nathan Long:

Would you recommend like the FDA start regulating supplements down the road? I mean, would that be a better pathway? I mean, because you’re right. The ephedrine thing was… the ephedrine situation was horrible.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

I mean, that would be brilliant if they could. Or if these… every company was trustworthy enough to do rigorous, intense studies on their products and really ensure that they’re safe and effective 20 years studies. But some supplement companies, they got to make money, and they want to make money. And so that’s the way it works, unfortunately, in this country.

Nathan Long:

Okay. No, that’s very helpful. So changing course a little bit, getting into your day-to-day work, how does mental health and the like relate to one’s nutritional choices from your perspective, what you’ve seen and how things, and really in terms of how people process that in terms of just general mental wellness.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So we know for sure that there are associations between mental health and nutrition, but what’s interesting, it’s a bidirectional relationship. So an easy example is that obesity can lead to depression, but depression can also lead to obesity. So they’re kind of intertwined. And depression medications are one of the most common medications prescribed in this country.

And interestingly enough, a side effect of depression is increased hunger and increased weight gain, which is an interesting kind of phenomenon because a lot of people are depressed because they’re overweight, and now the depression medicine is treating the depression, but making them more overweight, which leads to depression. So another reason to eat healthy and balance your lifestyle and exercise.

In terms of our department at Saybrook, we offer two classes that really focus on mental health. One is IFN 5611, which is Nutrition Foundations for Mental Health, and one is IFN 5705 Psychobiology of Eating. A lot of our classes do hit on mental health, but those two really hone in on it, and that’s the main focus of those classes.

Nathan Long:

All right. No, that’s really super helpful. And then, in terms of nutritional needs over the lifespan, how have you seen those change over time that you’ve been practicing? And I’m sure there’s focus on this in the profession as well.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yeah. So nutritional recommendations differ across the lifespan, and they change depending on a lot of different things. Is there growth happening? Is it a child blossoming into a teenager, into an adult? Is it somebody aging and at risk for bone loss and having osteoporosis?

Is it a 35-year-old individual who wants to put on muscle? And all these things really affect nutrition recommendations? Is it a breastfeeding women? So the recommendations definitely change over the lifespan, and we’re actually focusing on creating a life cycle or lifespan nutrition-specific class in our department over the next year or two.

Nathan Long:

That’s really, really good. So you are a certified dietician, correct?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yes, it’s a registered dietician, RD.

Nathan Long:

1. Registered Dietician, RD. So take us through someone who comes to you for the first time. What is the process you walk them through regarding nutrition and whole health?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

We take the time to really assess patients. Most importantly is to ask them, “Why are you here? What is it that you want out of the session? What are your goals?” Maybe at initial impression, we are inspecting the individual, and we are noticing that this is most likely an obese individual, but they come to us and they have a different goal. Maybe they have discomfort after they eat due to reflux, or they are going through cancer treatments, and they have Dysgeusia.

They have taste buds that are altering the taste of their foods, and they don’t like the taste of their foods, and they’re nervous because they’re not eating enough. So that’s an important point is that you really have to assess the person’s goals. We assess their full health history. Whatever notes we have access to, if it’s in a clinical setting, we’ll have access to a big chunk of their medical record. But we like to look at as much as we can.

What medicines are you taking? What are your most recent labs looking like? Medications have a lot of nutrition-related side effects, whether it’s constipation, diarrhea, vomiting, altered taste, increase thirst, decrease thirst, dry mouth. All of these things like affect nutritional intake, even arguably if the medicine gives you a headache or makes you dizzy. You may not want to eat in those circumstances. So we really try to focus on the person’s personal goals.

We practice motivational interviewing, which is sort of a collaborative, a goal-oriented practice where we work with the patient to help them get motivated to make healthy behavior changes. We’re here for the knowledge piece. We have all the knowledge. But a lot of times, I have clients or patients, they come to me, and they’ll say things like, “For breakfast every day, I eat a donut. I know I should eat oatmeal.

That’s probably better for my cholesterol. And for lunch, I skip lunch. I’m busy at work. I know I should probably not skip lunch. I should eat lunch.” And it’s funny because most people really do probably have enough knowledge to make some healthier lifestyle changes. They know enough to improve in some way, but really it’s about helping that person with their goals and helping them fit healthier lifestyles into their current lifestyle.

Nathan Long:

Well, that’s very interesting. That leads me to my next question because you’ve got someone in to see you. You’ve assessed them. You’ve talked through a variety of different pieces of their nutrition puzzle, if you will, and then you set up a plan, right.

I mean, together with them. Are there any hacks that you have just for individuals staying invested in the program? Because if it’s too severe, people will falter, but if it’s not structured enough, people are like, “I need structure, right.” So there’s probably a happy medium. How do you support that?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So making small changes, very small changes. So there’s really no reason that everything has to be changed in one day. Nutrition is one of those things that typically takes a long time to cause health problems. If you’re eating unhealthy diets, kind of like smoking cigarettes. It takes a while. If you smoke two cigarettes in your whole life, you probably won’t wake up with lung cancer the next day.

But nutrition is one of those things that you’re making healthier lifestyle changes so you’re in the right direction, and you don’t have to snap your fingers and become a bodybuilder overnight. Any changes that you make will improve your health. The other thing is helping people do what they like. If they like going out to lunch with their colleagues, don’t try to change that. Don’t tell them, “Now you have to start bringing lunch.” We have to give them realistic options.

Nathan Long:

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Sometimes I ask them, “Well, where do you normally go? What are the options? What’s near your office? What are the places that you guys normally go to eat?” And I’ll download the menu and bounce ideas off of them of what types of things might fit into your healthy lifestyle and your budgets and your goals and such. Most restaurants nowadays have healthy options, which is really nice, vegetarian, vegan, and gluten-free, and they’re aware that that’s what their customers want.

Nathan Long:

And they even have the calorie intake on a lot.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Right.

Nathan Long:

Yeah, I think I’ve avoided a lot of food just by looking at the calories alone.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Hey, so it worked for you.

Nathan Long:

It did. It did. I have other challenges, but yes, that is definitely one help. Well, no, those are all very, very helpful, and appreciate your insights as a leader in this field and really taking the reins and helping guide and being in journey with patients. Shifting gears for a minute, in a previous interview with Lori Taylor, who’s also in the IFN Department and she was a former department chair.

She made such a powerful case regarding social justice and nutrition. And I know in these days, and these times, that can always be a controversial thing, right. You mentioned the term social justice, but really not necessarily needing to go into a whole ton of specifics today. But be curious what your perspective is on this and why. Where do you land on this?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm. So the interesting thing about this is that the mission of Saybrook is to, “Relentlessly pursue a socially just, sustainable world by educating humanistic leaders who transform their fields and communities.” So it’s kind of embedded in all that Saybrook does. It’s almost impossible to discuss health without discussing social injustice. So it has to be considered by people practicing nutrition and dietetics.

So I used to work in a community hospital, so sometimes I would get homeless patients who get all their food from a food bank or from a soup kitchen. So you can’t be proposing these grand ideas of, “Why don’t you grill fish and steam your broccoli and cook all this… everything organic.” And they’re looking at you like, “Did you not just listen to me? I just told you that I don’t have a home, and I don’t have a kitchen.” So we have to help-

Nathan Long:

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

… people meet them where they’re at. “So how do you eat? How are you eating and where do you get your food, and what do they normally serve? Do you have options?” Sometimes there’s no options. Sometimes they always get dinner from the same place, and that’s okay. You can help them in other ways. But we learn all this stuff about nutrition, and we get so ambitious, and we want to change people’s lives, but we really do have to consider things like food security. People in different communities are not having the same access to healthy stores.

Nathan Long:

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Gas is expensive. It’s hard to even drive to the store because now you have to not only figure your price of your food. But the price of gas is even more so on people’s minds. Not that it was ever off of our minds, but, of course, recently it’s even more on their minds.

Nathan Long:

Yeah. Just put that in context for you. I mean, you’ve been to the grocery store. We just bought apples. Apples, like the thing you’re supposed to eat one a day of, right.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

All right.

Nathan Long:

It was almost $9 for two pounds of apples out here. So 4,50 a pound, which is the highest I think I’ve ever seen it. And exactly to your point, we’re blessed to have the means to buy those, but if you’re talking to folks who are struggling economically, how do you balance that?

So I really appreciate you bringing that up about meeting people where they’re at to sort of figure out how to meet their goals and needs really, not just goals, their needs, and especially in an economy that is very difficult right now and increasingly so.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Well, I think it just needs to be embedded into every healthcare curriculum for future healthcare workers because even when it comes to medicine, not everybody has health insurance. Not everyone’s going to buy the medication. So maybe doctors need to work more closely with dieticians who can maybe help that person in nutritional ways that will improve that health condition that traditionally is treated with medication.

Nathan Long:

Oh, that’s great. All right. Well, thank you for those insights. Appreciate it. So, all right, we’re going to get into what we know and love in the Saybrook University world as the Integrative Functional Nutrition Program. So what should a new student coming into the program expect to experience in terms of courses, faculty, time requirements, et cetera? I think… And we’ll get into a little bit more about the rudiments of the program, but what would a student coming in expect?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So we can start with some basics. So, first of all, we use Canvas as our learning management system. The IFN Department focus… functions solely remote, so there’s no requirement to go anywhere in person. So we need a good learning management system. And from my experience in higher academic settings, Canvas is a great one. It’s very user-friendly. Nonetheless, all our students are enrolled in a Canvas orientation training so you can get familiar with that system.

So that’s where all assignments are submitted. That’s where discussions happen. And we do use Zoom for video conferences. So you get FaceTime with your fellow faculty and your fellow students, which is actually very nice because, typically, when I start Zoom conferences, the first few minutes are students catching up with one another. “Hey, how’s it going? How’s your kids? What about… What happened last weekend? You didn’t call me.”

So that’s really nice because I can see that even in the virtual environment, students are connecting and making relationships and getting to know one another, which is nice. So our program, so we have a certificate program, a master’s program, a PhD program, and then we have a master’s to PhD pathway program for people with bachelor’s degrees who know they want a PhD ultimately. So you earn your masters along the way.

So in our programs, we have some core courses where you’ll learn some foundations of nutrition, science, micronutrients, macronutrients, and then we have a lot of elective options. We’re always developing new options and thinking about what would be the next hot topic to have for elective options. And then, in our PhD program, about a third of the curriculum is comprised of research courses because once you’ve finished the didactic part of the program or the classes, you actually conduct a research study.

So you have a dissertation committee, which is three faculty who mentor you and who meet with you and assist you with the process, but you’re really taking the reins and conducting real research. Since you’re really doing this, an easy example I like to give, if somebody wants to do research with astronauts, I’ll say, “Well, do you know any astronauts? Do you live near a Space Force space? I do. I happen to live near the newly named Patrick Space Force space.” But we encourage our students to think about who do you have access to and what might you be interested for your dissertation.

In terms of time commitment, we sort of have a rough estimate that students spend about 45 hours of work for each credit hour of class. So that’s about 135 hours for a three-credit hour class, which most of our classes are three credits, and that would be spread over either seven weeks or a full traditional 16-week semester. As far as our faculty go, they come from really a wide range of backgrounds, which is really nice. So we have registered dieticians like myself on staff.

We also have people with the CNS credential, certified nutrition specialists. We have naturopathic physician. We have people with PhDs, DCNs, which is Doctor of Clinical Nutrition. We have Doctor of Public Health. So we have a really nice range of faculty with diverse backgrounds and experience working in the healthcare profession. All of us actually have hands-on experience working with patients and with clients in the healthcare setting.

Nathan Long:

Which makes such a big difference if you’re a student coming in. Yeah, absolutely. No, that’s terrific.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm.

Nathan Long:

So many students do come to us with families, full-time jobs, other major responsibilities, and I absolutely love the fact that IFN has crafted this as a fully virtual program. I think that’s just tremendous, and it’s also an intensive program, right. So there’s a lot to do. You mentioned the number of hours that are required over the course of a semester. Yeah. How do you recommend, or how do your faculty recommend, that students achieve balance in an intensive program like that?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

I have a few pieces of advice. So, first of all, staying organized, I would say, is absolutely critical. I usually recommend students plan out their days. So when you’re at work and when you’ll be in your working hours. But then really think about what times of the day you’re going to dedicate to your schoolwork. You really want to work it into your schedule to make it fit. I find that students who don’t have those types of plans end up saving it to the last minute, and then maybe the last minute something happens, and then they’re emailing us panicking, “Oh, no, something happened.”

But with that, we do know that that students work. So we typically host our video conferences at five or 6:00 PM Pacific Time because we know most of our students are working. Most of them have families. They have to pick their kids up at school and so forth. So we kind of build that into scheduling. However, most of the program is asynchronous, meaning you’ll get the syllabus. It’s pretty long, and it’ll have all of the work that you need for the semester, with the exception of the live video conferences that are in real-time and face-to-face.

And even with the live video conferences that are required, we send save the dates out before the semester begins, and inevitably somebody is going to be on a plane at that time or getting married at that time. And we know this, and that’s why we send save the dates, so that way we can record the video conferences and make sure that students really get their participation points for participating, even though they weren’t actually there because this is somewhat of a common thing with adult learners.

Nathan Long:

I love that flexibility. So you record the lectures or the experiences for those who can’t make it. I think that’s terrific. Was that a new thing? Is that something you’ve been doing for a while?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

We’ve been doing that for as long as I’ve been at Saybrook, and I’ve been at Saybrook over four years now, and we’ve always recorded the video conferences because we’ve always had a busy working student body. I mean, it’s great if you can attend the live video conferences because you build relationships with your faculty, with your colleagues, with your other students.

But inevitably, just like if you were in a traditional face-to-face school, you’ll have to miss a day here and there. So it’s a nice option. And it’s also nice for the students because you don’t feel like you missed anything. You know, instructor gives some tips and tricks on how to succeed in the class so you don’t… [inaudible 00:47:45] want to miss those.

Nathan Long:

Yeah. And they get to hear the discussion. That happens too, in real… in recorded time. But still, that’s helpful, I would imagine. So if I’m a student and I begin to struggle in the program, whether it’s a master’s or PhD, how do you as faculty support them? What mechanisms are in place to help me if I’m having trouble?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So I can tell you, as soon as you begin to struggle, we will notice as faculty, and we will reach out to you. We will email you, and if you don’t respond to our email, we’ll call you and we will make sure that you’re okay. See what’s going on. In addition to having family and having jobs, people get sick. We’re in a pandemic. This is, unfortunately, going to happen.

So the first thing is we’ll reach out to you, see what’s happening, see if you’re okay. Another thing is we’ll recommend resources to you. Something kind of unique about the IFN Program is we actually have 15 federal work-study employees. So you can become eligible for federal work-study by selecting the option on your FAFSA application, which is something that you’ll do with financial aid.

And if you’re interested in federal work-study, you can select that you’re interested in that. And it’s really nice. It’s considered on-the-job training where you’re getting prepared for your professional career and also giving back to your colleagues and to us faculty and just to the university. And those are paid positions. So that’s another option. And we have 15 tutors in the departments.

Nathan Long:

Wow.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

All of the instructors also offer tutoring outside of work hours. And we also have a writing center and a library who can help you with things like navigating the research databases and utilizing APA formatting, and just basic grammar and writing and structure of papers. So we have a fair amount of student support services.

Nathan Long:

Yeah. They’re pretty fabulous. And I think, for those wondering, you get everything you get at a big research institution at smaller Saybrook University. Yeah, very good. I appreciate that. So what about post-degree? Do I get a job right away? Yeah. Do I have to sit for certification or licensure, or do I have the option to? Are there internships, practicums that are required? What’s the deal after I get the degree, or maybe right as I’m about to get the degree?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yeah. So it’s always good to start looking for a job before you finish.

Nathan Long:

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So you don’t have a gap in your resume. But our programs, our masters and our PhD programs meet the didactic criteria, which is the coursework criteria to sit for the CNS Credential, which is the Certified Nutrition Specialist Credential.

Once you finish the program, you’ll need to find an internship and complete 1000 hours of internship, and you can take that exam. And we recently found out that our PhD program meets the criteria to apply for ISPP programs, which is Individualized Supervised Practice programs, which-

Nathan Long:

Oh, wow.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

… is a route toward getting the registered dietician, the RD credential. So that one is only through the PhD program. But what’s nice about both of those credentials is those are typically suitable for gaining licensure in your state.

Nathan Long:

Oh, right.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So most of the states, I think about 47 of them or so, don’t quote me on the number, but most of the states have some sort of licensure guidelines around who can practice nutrition. Some just regulate who can call themselves a nutritionist but not who can practice. And then some have no laws. So I always encourage students to look up the laws in your state and any state you think you might live in to make sure that you’re getting the degree and the credentials that will meet your career needs.

Nathan Long:

So that’s probably a great question too, for them to connect with faculty on and their local and state officials. That’s very good.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm.

Nathan Long:

Do you all offer any job placement or support with networking for those who are interested?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Our student affairs department has a software that we subscribe to called Handshake that can help with some of that, and our student affairs office can help with resume editing and that sort of thing. And then we also post jobs. We have an IFN community Canvas page, if you will, which is where we post things like job announcements, anything interesting happening in the department, any conferences coming up, special announcements. There’s resources there on resumes and that sort of thing.

Nathan Long:

Oh, right. No, that’s great. It’s like the job board in the grad office when I was in grad [inaudible 00:52:21].

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yes.

Nathan Long:

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

[inaudible 00:52:23] need to go there and…

 

Nathan Long:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

… try to find something relevant.

Nathan Long:

Resume build. Yes. I love it. All right. So let’s shift gears kind of to the very start of the process, right. So I’m a prospective student. How would you counsel me to prepare for the process? Specifically, what are maybe the top three or five things a prospective student like me could do to create a great application for the IFN Program?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So one thing I would say is to attend a prospective student call. So we have those monthly where we go over all the ins and outs of the IFN Department. What classes you’ll take? How many credits you need, and the admissions process? But I, of course, also encourage you to speak closely with your admissions counselor and try to build a close relationship with them, as they can really answer a lot of your specific university questions.

And once you submitted all your documents, you’ll interview with one of us IFN faculty, and that’s a really good opportunity to ask us specific questions about the IFN Department. I’ll provide you an email address so you can continue to bounce ideas off of us after your interview. And typically, once I leave a meeting is when I think of my really good questions. So when that happens to you, you have our email address. You just email us your questions. But be prepared for those questions of, “Tell us a little bit about yourself and what brings you to this point in your academic journey.”

We’ll see your CV. We’ll see your resume, so we’ll know a little bit about you. We’ll have your transcripts and we’ll see what you majored in school, and we’ll read your personal statement. So short of just a short spiel, if you will, of five minutes about what brings you to this point, why Saybrook, why IFN Departments, and that will really help us help you determine which program’s the right fit for you.

Nathan Long:

Oh, right. No, that’s very clear and succinct. And you even answered the interview piece, so I was just going to ask you about the interview process. So you got it all in one fell swoop there, Dr. Weissman. Appreciate that.

If a student isn’t selected for a mission and that does happen, what are the major reasons why from your four years here at Saybrook, and do you think that’s the end of the road for their aspirations in nutrition? Should they consider reapplying? I mean, maybe some thoughts on that for those who may not make it.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yeah. So the main reasons I’m seeing are unethical behavior, typically plagiarism or misrepresenting oneself as maybe a chiropractor, and you’re not actually meeting the requirements to call yourself a chiropractor or a dietician or whatever you may. So it’s typically just ethical issues, which is sad to see because we do offer things like a graduate-level academic writing course for persons who are ethical.

But maybe their writing isn’t up to graduate student level standards, or maybe they don’t exactly understand how to use in-text citations in their writing sample and that sort of thing. But it’s not the end of the road. You can wait another year and reapply to the program, and we would encourage you to do so. It might be a time to have some self-reflection and think about the process and consider if the program is right for you.

Nathan Long:

Do they get any feedback If they’re not admitted?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yeah, we can give feedback on why the person wasn’t admitted. And we can also provide you with your specific writing sample feedback.

Nathan Long:

Which aids in that self-reflection, which is fabulous. That’s really terrific. All right. So the last main question about IFM. What do you see as the future of the IFM Program at Saybrook University? And especially how do you see us serving the ballooning healthcare needs of Americans, especially where nutrition and whole health are concerned?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Pretty much all of the leading causes of death and morbidity in this country are for conditions that have some nutrition components. Some are the obvious ones, heart disease, diabetes, but also cancer, Alzheimer’s, and even COVID-19 right now, which is one of the leading causes of death in this country. They all have nutrition components. So with that, there’s no shortage of jobs.

According to the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics, our job field is expected to grow by 11% between 2020 and 2030, which is faster than the national average. Arguably more than half the country needs us just based on the fact that more than half of the country is suffering from overweight or obesity, and those who aren’t are impacted by… in some way or another by other causes of morbidity and mortality. So our job field really isn’t going anywhere. We also continuously develop new curriculum, new classes.

So we’re currently developing three new classes. One is Functional Nutrition Labs, one is Nutritional Genomics, and a third is Systems Biology of Lifestyle Medicine. So we’re always kind of working to make the program more exciting and innovative and incorporating those important integrative and functional nutrition pieces that really are key to the success of our graduates.

Nathan Long:

That’s really great. That’s really great. So do you see the program enrollments growing over time? And we’ve seen some really great growth in the nutrition program. Do you feel like we’ll sustain that over time?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Yeah, the program is on a continuous upward trend. It’s growing, and it’s exciting, and we have students progressing to their dissertation portion of the program. So the program has definitely seen a continuous growth, and we hope that continues.

Nathan Long:

How big would you like to see it get?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

I haven’t thought about that. We’re at about, I think, 130 students right now. As the student body grows, I’d like to see the faculty also increase to make sure that we have enough support for dissertations and for teaching and that sort of thing. So as big as we can get it, really, as long as we increase faculty while we increase students.

Nathan Long:

Fair enough, fair enough. No, that’s terrific. Okay, so kind of two more last questions. These are rapid fires, so just kind of unvarnished quick thoughts on this. What does the term humanistic mean to you, and how does it show up in IFN?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

People want to be treated with respect and with dignity, and unfortunately, most of us have probably experienced quite the opposite in medicine. So that’s what humanistic means to me, is respect and dignity. And that’s what we want our students to practice once they graduate from our program. We want them to represent Saybrook as humanistic practitioners. We want them to treat their patients, their clients with respect, their family members with respect. If they choose to go into academia, their colleagues, their students with respect.

And this even goes as far as, again, if you’re practicing in a clinical setting and your patient tells you that they’re homeless, think about that for a second. And when you’re telling them to go to a higher priced grocery store and buy all organic foods, think about that that might be offensive to somebody who just told you that they’re homeless and they really don’t have the means to spend a lot of money on food. They don’t have a kitchen to cook the food. So that’s where our program kind of takes humanistic approach into account.

Nathan Long:

That’s really, really great. I think the one, oh, it was a quote while back there. A colleague of mine had mentioned there was a video, and a gentleman had said, “I learned so much on how to become a humanistic practitioner. I started before I really understood it by saying, ‘I’m here to help’ and then move to, ‘How can I help.'”

And I think to your point around how you counsel patients, it’s like, “How can I help you,” is really, “What do you need? Where can we start together and journey together?” It’s really well put, Jessica. I appreciate that. So last question, really not last question. How do you want to leave our guests today? What are some of the three simple things people can do right now that will have a positive impact on their nutrition and overall health and wellness?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

So I think probably the most important one is to make time for yourself every day. Do something that you enjoy doing every day. It could be painting. It could be watching something silly on TV, hopefully, while you’re stretching or using a treadmill or a bike or something to that effect. But take some time for yourself. I mean, mental health is important, and I think our country is finally realizing that this is something that can no longer be ignored.

Meet the minimum exercise requirements, check out the CDC website. Adults need about 150 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise per week, plus two strength training days. So figure out what it is that you like. Do you like to dance? Do you like to hit things really hard? You might need a punching bag. Or what is it that you like? Are you a water person? Do you want to learn how to surf? Do you want to join a swim team? Figure out what it is that you like.

There’s a lot of free stuff on YouTube as well if you like dancing, if you like yoga. There’s really no longer, “I need to pay to go to a fancy fitness center.” You can do it all on YouTube. You don’t necessarily need equipment to do it as well. And then something that I think is so simple and so traditional but so underrated is just eat your fruits and vegetables every day. Five servings a day, that’s recommended.

I think a lot of people know it, and I think people struggle with how to get fruits and vegetables into their day, whether it’s convenience, price. How to cook vegetables and make them taste interesting. Do your best and try to eat more fruits and vegetables. The CDC estimates that only like 10% of people in America are eating the recommended amounts of fruits and vegetables per day. So the other 90% of you, get on board.

Nathan Long:

Get on board. Well, I’ll make that personal promise to you today. So go do something you like. Get your exercise in, everybody. 150 minutes a week, right?

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Mm-hmm. And that could be split up however you like it.

Nathan Long:

Yeah. Right. And then eat your fruits and vegetables, all 90% of us. So we got a lot of work to do, but it can be fun and rewarding. Jessica, Dr. Weissman, thank you so, so much for being with us today and taking time out. I know you’re so busy, and means a lot to me and to us for you to be here.

Dr. Jessica Weissman:

Thank you.

Nathan Long:

That was terrific. Thank you, Dr. Jessica Weissman, once again for just a fabulous episode. I hope you all enjoyed her interview as much as I did, and I learned so much. And of all the things she put out there, I was just thinking to myself, who knew about the FDA, right? I mean, that they regulate supplements after they’ve been put out to market. That’s something to think about, right? But there were many other great takeaways today, including how you apply for admission into the IFN masters and PhD programs to all the wonderful things and ideas that she brought up about whole health, mental health, and nutrition. So great stuff. And once again, thank you, Jessica.

If you want to see video elements from the podcast, we’ve created these segments. You’ll find these on the Saybrook website. You can find this on the program page. Just type in saybrook.edu, click on areas of study and go to IFN or Integrated Functional Nutrition. We’re also going to have those located on YouTube and across our social media, so hopefully, you’ll find those of interest. Also, if you’d like to support the podcast, go to Apple iTunes and leave a five-star rating and review, and please subscribe so you can get episodes as they come out. If you’re into Spotify, leave that five-star rating and make sure to follow us.

You can, of course, subscribe to us on most major podcast platforms, including Google Podcast, Stitcher, Pandora, and several others. For more about our Integrative Functional Nutrition Program, simply go to www.saybrook.edu, click on the areas of study at the top left-hand side of the page, and locate the program to learn more. Or you can simply Google Saybrook University IFN or Integrative Functional Nutrition Program, and it’ll pop right up. So without further ado, I’m going to let you all go. Have a terrific day. Be well, take care of yourselves, and go out there and make positive social change.